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Saturday, July 5, 2003

Acceptable Use of Military Force

JunkYard Blog points out a huge double standard:

It goes almost without saying that most of the left didn't and still don't support our intervention in Iraq. Human rights abuses had been a fixture of that country for decades, where a bloody tyrant killed anyone who became inconvenient. He hated America, hated our power, hated everything about us. He also, according to the consensus of such right-wing bodies as the United Nations Security Council, failed to comply with binding resolutions aimed at depriving him of horrible weapons he could use to kill or blackmail people in Israel, Europe and America. But none of that mattered to the left--they didn't support intervention, even when the pre-war argument that our very national security was at stake was compelling. If we find more evidence of Saddam's illegal weapons programs, the national security case for war will be iron-clad, but the left will never admit it was wrong.

Now, tiny and insignificant Liberia is embroiled in a civil war. It has been bloody, but by no means a threat to American security, and probably less bloody than the average day in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan or Saddam's Iraq. From the UN and elsewhere come calls for American intervention--from the same people who said we would fail in Afghanistan, the same people who didn't want us to use our military for its intended purpose of national self-defense.

Now, you can make a good case for involving the American military in these peacekeeping missions. Rev. Mike makes a compelling argument for such interventions (in this case, regarding Rwanda):

Contrary to those who would argue that peacekeeping and humanitarian missions are not part of the core mission for our military, I would argue that when other guys with guns are the root cause of the humanitarian crisis, then who else are we supposed to send?

Personally, I'm of two minds about this subject. Part of me agrees with Rev. Mike -- if we can do something, then perhaps we should. But then there's a part of me that says, "Why is it our job to be the world's rent-a-cops, especially since we get nothing but grief for it anyway?"

What gets me is the double standard pointed out in the JYB post. I posted about this in Rev. Mike's comments, and I'll reiterate my point here. What I want to say to those who whined about us going to Iraq, and are now whining because we don't go to other places is this: What on earth can America do to please you? It seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we dare use our military to actually defend our country (which is what the military is for), we are condemned as warmongers and imperialists. However, if we try to stay out of situations that don't directly affect our national security, we are condemned for being uncaring. You don't want us to be "imperialists," but yet you want us running around at your beckon call beck and call, putting out fires all over the place. Will you please make up your damned mind?

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>>Liberia from Dean's World
What she said.... [Read More]

Tracked on July 7, 2003 6:49 AM

>>I Agree, Too from The Eleven Day Empire
Regarding the debate over whether or not the U.S. should send troops to Liberia, Dean Esmay linked to this, and [Read More]

Tracked on July 7, 2003 8:49 AM

>>Liberian Rules Of Engagement from Just Some Poor Schmuck
A commenter on LilacRose gives this response to a post on whether we should intervene in Liberia Yes, If and only If, the rules of engagement are very clear. 1. If you are a 13 year old with an AK-47,... [Read More]

Tracked on July 7, 2003 11:04 PM

>>Just blogging from Bene Diction Blogs On!
Russia The Russia and Chechyna conflict is being headlined and spun into the popular war on terror speak that dominates todays headlines. But is that true? To say Russia is a complex and troubled country is to state the obvious. Gwynne Dyer looks at t... [Read More]

Tracked on July 8, 2003 12:36 PM

>>Just blogging from Bene Diction Blogs On
Russia The Russia and Chechyna conflict is being headlined and spun into the popular 'war on terror speak' that dominates todays headlines. But is that true? To say Russia is a complex and troubled country is to state the obvious. Gwynne Dyer looks at ... [Read More]

Tracked on August 2, 2004 11:50 PM

Comments

You've hit the ol' nail right on the head - those who disagree will continue to disagree no matter what we do. It's not about what we do, it's about who we are. Some people just cannot support a Republican president at war under any circumstances, ever.

Here's a good rule of thumb for deciding if a humanitarian military intervention is a good idea:

1) Does this mission defend a strategic national interest? If yes, GO.

2) If not, does the intervention require only the short-term use of military resources such as airlift and shipping capability? Do we have these resources available? Do we have lots of money sitting around that we can spend on this mission? If yes, GO.

3) In the absence of a strategic national interest, does this mission involve actually shooting people? Does it involve "bringing security" or "stabilizing" an area against any force more significant than casual looters? If so, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Liberia may actually be a strategic asset - the war on terror will be moving into Africa soon, and we may have our own reasons to stash a few thousand troops there and build a nice airfield. However, if this is not the case, we should not touch this mess with a ten-foot pole. You can throw a dart at a map of Africa and you'll probably hit a place that's worse off than Liberia. Somalia, for instance...

Posted on July 7, 2003 at 9:10 AM
John Johns Gravatar.com

Yes, If and only If, the rules of engagement are very clear.

1. If you are a 13 year old with an AK-47, we will shoot to kill.

2. If you are a 13 year old throwing rocks, we will shoot to kill.

3. We will returm fire EVERY time we get incoming rounds.

4, If you plunk your sorry ass down among women and children and shoot at us, we will shoot to kill.

5. If you (an American liberal) scream about civilian causlties, we will uphold your right to dissent.

Regards
Johnny Johns

Posted on July 7, 2003 at 8:23 PM

"the same people who said we would fail in Afghanistan"

We succeeded in Afghanistan already? What hole are you living in, the place is still a mess and without a serious renewal of efforts it's going to fall apart completely. Barely holding together as it is.

"If we dare use our military to actually defend our country (which is what the military is for), we are condemned as warmongers and imperialists."

Did you pay attention to anything any anti-war advocates said or did you just watch the rallies where there was nothing but rabble rousing? The Iraq war couldn't have been about defending our country because there was nothing there to defend our country from. It was the weakest state in the region and the only non-compliance on Saddam's part was his acting skittish around inspectors: there was no evidence of his part in 9/11, no evidence of his supporting anti-American terrorism, and no evidence of WMD. There were a few legit questions left about some unaccounted-for weapon programs materials, any actual weapons agents for which would have degraded after 12 years. When Saddam actually did have chemical weapons the only time he ever used them was when he knew the US would not respond, I mean hell, our government was covering for him at the time. He had them during the Gulf War and didn't use them, knowing full well the kind of response it would illicit, and considering that after the Gulf War U.S. policy immediately shifted from the UN mandate of disarmament to regime change it's understandable why Saddam should attempt to maintain some kind of deterrent to threats to his regime: he was doing the finger-in-the-pocket routine. We went to war over bad accounting, not national defense.

"if we try to stay out of situations that don't directly affect our national security, we are condemned for being uncaring. You don't want us to be 'imperialists'"

The USG effectively already is 'imperialist', it's fairly impossible not to be when you've got this kind of global power and are going to wage preventative war if somebody coudl potentially challenge you.

The problems in Africa are as much a result of past mucking in its internal affairs by global powers as it is anything else. Remember Samuel Doe? If we have the option to do something that will mitigate civil conflicts and human suffering we should put it under careful consideration, and if we choose to exercise the option make every effort to not make matters worse.

In either case, we're talking about a peace-keeping/security mission in Liberia, something that was done in northern Iraq and which we refused to do in the south after the first Gulf War, rather than a massive bombing campaign, land invasion, occupation, counter-insurgency campaign, etc, or what generally falls under the hubris of "war". It's not peace advocates that are being inconsistent here, it's your conflation of what we're ostensibly talking about doing in Liberia and what we did do in Iraq.

And either way, few of our troops are trained for it, though half of them are now effectively involved in it, and Johnny Johns demostrates well enough why I have reservations about US soldiers being sent out to do it. Having closed the Army College PKI - our one peace-keeping institute, with all it's 10 member staff - it boggles my mind that the administration is considering tacking on another such mission. It would be more to our and everybody else's benefit if more of us, the public as well as the troops, actually knew what it was we're were doing, and could take it seriously.

I'd be happy if we just stopped blocking efforts by other people who do take it seriously. Instead we constantly threaten to veto peacekeeping missions in the UN because the USG want an infinite supply of 'get out of jail free' cards abroad. We shouldn't need them to begin with.

Posted on July 8, 2003 at 6:25 PM



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