Very long but very thorough. And a good take-down in the comments. I like that.

I hate to respond to political posts because I can never seem to speak as eloquently as the rest of you, but, while I agree with a few of those points that, yes, it is a shame that the majority of the news outlets highlight the fanatics who seem to be praising people the the President of Iran (I won't even begin to try to pronounce his name!). However, it's also dangerous to pigeon hole the entire Arab community as being in favour of that just because of what you see on the news.

I can't place the blame squarely on the Arab community, since, every conflict has two people at opposite sides. You cannot say that Israel is not completely off the hook in the crisis, because they are just as guilty of launching attacks as the other side.

I'm certainly not that knowledgeable in this subject, of course, so I could be wrong - and I'm probably way off base about the point of this thread, but that's just my opinion (please feel free to delete this post if it makes absolutely NO sense!) :)

I guess it's so tragic for both sides, that I just don't really know what to make of the subject. I do consider myself to be on the left side of the aisle most of the times, but I hope that I have fallen in on your good side! ^_^

Okay, let's play the Moral Equivalency Game. Has Israel ever attacked anyone without being attacked first? Has Israel ever threatened to push another country into the sea or nuke them into oblivion, or do they just want to have wedding parties and go out for a pizza without being bombed? Has Israel ever elected the proud mother of a suicide bomber to a prominent place in government? Where do Arabs live more prosperous lives, Israel or Palestine? Can Jews and Christians live in peace in Muslim-led countries? Where do women have more opportunities, or for that matter any opportunities? Exactly what members of what religion are slaughtering what members of another religion in Africa? Yeah, cry me a river for those poor Arabs. As I discussed with Susan below, I do feel for the women who are living in a horror movie in Arab countries. But the ones who are "apes in tuxedos" are the ones who are denying the facts. And the fact right now is that the "Arab culture," based around and on the Muslim religion, sucks. Period.

Hi Todd,

Well, you are not one of the people I'm talking about -- you have always been respectful. I have no problem with people who disagree with me commenting here as long as they're respectful. My sister is pretty left-wing in her beliefs, but she is certainly not a vulgarian. But people like you and my sister seem to be the exception rather than the rule, unfortunately.

Most of the time on leftwing blogs, I see very little substance, but a lot of foul-mouthed insults and ridicule aimed at people who don't deserve it. For example, the situation addressed in the SC&A post: Here we have an obviously intelligent, civilized and accomplished woman like Alexandra at All Thing Beautiful being subjected to the most base, foul-mouthed insults you could imagine. This Stanton Jones guy could not make his point without insulting Alexandra, calling her stupid and calling her a Nazi. The sad thing is, he doesn't even realize how petty he looks and how much he undermined his own point by acting that way.

The same thing applies to the way feminist bloggers treat people like Dawn Eden. Because Dawn is pro-life and because she believes sex has a spiritual component and therefore should not be taken lightly, she is accused of hating women, being "anti-sex", being a tool of The Patriarchy (tm), etc. She has been subjected to all kinds of personal attacks by these vile women, these smug, smirking, hate-filled bigots, but she never responds in kind, which makes her a better person than me.

As for the other points you made...As I see it, the worst problem in the Middle East is the extreme, Wahhabi strain of Islam that is being promoted by Saudi Arabia. It is being promoted all over the Arab world and also in Europe and the United States. Wahhabi Islam is the main source of Islamofascism and the violence and terrorism that goes with it. As for Israel, while they are not perfect, they are the only real democracy in the Middle East. I see them as being more sinned against than sinning. They do what they have to to survive while being surrounded by such hostility and hate.

Wow, this has been a long comment! I guess I'll stop here. Sorry about the rambling. ;-)

Hi Barb,

You posted while I was writing the previous comment. You said what I was getting at, but you gave more specifics. The Arabs need to get rid of the Wahhabist influence if they are ever going to live in peace with the rest of the world. Israel has experienced so much violence against innocent people trying to live their normal lives, I don't blame them for doing what they need to do to survive.

Glad I fit in on the good side! Unfortunately, however, that sort of political bashing has become the norm on a lot of the political weblogs for both the left and the right side of the issue (which is part of the reason why I don't bother to read most of them). It's part of what I call the "talk radio-ization" of America (well, I never claimed to be an advertising major!). I just shudder any time I see anyone bring up the dreaded Nazi or Fascist word in reference to anything revolving around politics today (with certain, though rare, exceptions, of course). That is sure to be a conversation ender right there!

I know what it feels like to get criticized based on what I believe though, I tend to get it from the left and the right; while I mainly fall on the liberal side of the issues, I also have libertarian and conservative leanings too (although, lately, I tend to be pretty anti-authority, with the way Congress is going). I tend to vote third party, much to the chagrin of the activists (with the exception of the last presidential race).

I just hate how influential talk radio people have bastardized politics so much so that any time a Democrat works with a Republican (or vice versa) they're automatically lambasted. It's the reason I don't have much hope no matter what happens in the 2006 or 2008 elections, we're going to get more of the same divisive manner in Washington (and I'm not blaming one side, because they're both guilty).

As for the other points, you certainly seem to know a lot more then me about the subject so I won't harp on it that much, but I'd play devil's advocate for a moment to mention that you could say the same thing about the Palestinian people that you said about the Israeli people. Both have been surrounded by violence for so long, that each side believes that the other is the enemy ("violence will only beget more violence"). I don't mean to sound like I'm siding with either side on this issue, because I'm not. Truth be told, I don't really know to much about the subject to take one side over the other.

Any way, sorry for rambling! Hope this all made sense! ^_^

Todd,

I agree that things are really polarized right now. However, most of the nastiness and hate is coming from the left. When Clinton was President, a lot of us didn't like him, and yes there were some conservatives who went overboard with the conspiracy theories and stuff. But the hate is far worse now. Talk radio may have a lot to do with it. People like Michael Savage and the Air America crowd certainly don't help things.

As for the Palestinians, what a lot of people don't realize is that they've been treated far worse by their fellow Arabs than by Israel. Other Arab countries have turned them away and give very little aid to them. (Unless the aid is to fund terrorist groups.)